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	<title>Comments for Philosophical Musings 4 QuantumBrain</title>
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	<description>A quest for a better understanding of mind and matter</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 10:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Consciousness: a survival tool with implications for free will by admin</title>
		<link>http://quantumbrain.info/blog2/?p=24#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I see what you're getting at. However, as finite beings, manifestations of the "greater whole", I'm not sure that we can indeed know, in its proper sense, anything! Let me take the paradigm you've set up. Firstly, I would point out that the court of law works according to proof beyond reasonable doubt. There is no knowledge of the defendent being guilty or otherwise, even if the jury or judge claim to know. The evidence is weighed up by the jurers and a conclusion determined, much as in a scientific paper. Sometimes, later evidence supports the conclusion, sometimes it refute the conclusion. There is a truth of whether so-and-so committed a crime (possibly - I suppose you could even argue about the truth behind the definition of crime) but no one, perhaps not even the defendant themself, can actually know it. Rather, they can only beleive it, at best beyond reasonable doubt.

I agree that a thought is true in the sense of its being/existing as a thought. However, this is very distinguishable from the content of the thought. If I thought that all elephants were pink, my having such a thought is true as, well, I had the thought. However, its content, that of elephants being pink, is not necessarily true.

As for the use of language, unfortunately language is all we have. Whether you take the story of the Tower of Babel literally or not, it holds an important message for all philosophers.
Mathematics? Well, that's just another language isn't it? Sure, it's a very reliable and extremely practical language, yet its constructs are based on our thoughts and representations of the world around us. I can describe an equation in words (though I myself would find it pretty difficult seeing as I'm not amazingly fluent with mathematics) or via symbols. They represent the same ideas. To me, the ideas I express in this blog are logical.

I find it difficult describing the things I talk about in the blog as truths because, as I have said, they are obviously refutable....by themselves! It's quite a humbling thought...that of truth and no truth. It agrees with my thoughts on existence being all encompassing such that is may as well be nothing. I imagine that some people won't understand what I mean by that simply because that's the best way I can describe my understanding of it. However, having led different lives and different representations of reality, they may never understand it in the same way as I do. This is what I mean when I say 
"Yet I think the holding of this truth in one’s mind is dependent on one’s perception of its meaning. And this meaning will have varying importance to those who understand it."
The truth to which I refer is not the truth of "the only natural law is that there are no natural laws" or any of the other examples. It is the deeper meta-quasi-I-have-no-idea-what-to-call-it being of truth-non-truth........</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see what you&#8217;re getting at. However, as finite beings, manifestations of the &#8220;greater whole&#8221;, I&#8217;m not sure that we can indeed know, in its proper sense, anything! Let me take the paradigm you&#8217;ve set up. Firstly, I would point out that the court of law works according to proof beyond reasonable doubt. There is no knowledge of the defendent being guilty or otherwise, even if the jury or judge claim to know. The evidence is weighed up by the jurers and a conclusion determined, much as in a scientific paper. Sometimes, later evidence supports the conclusion, sometimes it refute the conclusion. There is a truth of whether so-and-so committed a crime (possibly - I suppose you could even argue about the truth behind the definition of crime) but no one, perhaps not even the defendant themself, can actually know it. Rather, they can only beleive it, at best beyond reasonable doubt.</p>
<p>I agree that a thought is true in the sense of its being/existing as a thought. However, this is very distinguishable from the content of the thought. If I thought that all elephants were pink, my having such a thought is true as, well, I had the thought. However, its content, that of elephants being pink, is not necessarily true.</p>
<p>As for the use of language, unfortunately language is all we have. Whether you take the story of the Tower of Babel literally or not, it holds an important message for all philosophers.<br />
Mathematics? Well, that&#8217;s just another language isn&#8217;t it? Sure, it&#8217;s a very reliable and extremely practical language, yet its constructs are based on our thoughts and representations of the world around us. I can describe an equation in words (though I myself would find it pretty difficult seeing as I&#8217;m not amazingly fluent with mathematics) or via symbols. They represent the same ideas. To me, the ideas I express in this blog are logical.</p>
<p>I find it difficult describing the things I talk about in the blog as truths because, as I have said, they are obviously refutable&#8230;.by themselves! It&#8217;s quite a humbling thought&#8230;that of truth and no truth. It agrees with my thoughts on existence being all encompassing such that is may as well be nothing. I imagine that some people won&#8217;t understand what I mean by that simply because that&#8217;s the best way I can describe my understanding of it. However, having led different lives and different representations of reality, they may never understand it in the same way as I do. This is what I mean when I say<br />
&#8220;Yet I think the holding of this truth in one’s mind is dependent on one’s perception of its meaning. And this meaning will have varying importance to those who understand it.&#8221;<br />
The truth to which I refer is not the truth of &#8220;the only natural law is that there are no natural laws&#8221; or any of the other examples. It is the deeper meta-quasi-I-have-no-idea-what-to-call-it being of truth-non-truth&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>Comment on Consciousness: a survival tool with implications for free will by Matthew Broome</title>
		<link>http://quantumbrain.info/blog2/?p=24#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Broome</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 03:41:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quantumbrain.info/blog2/?p=24#comment-5</guid>
		<description>I'll just jump straight in here. 

"Afterall, one cannot know something that is not the truth." Do you really believe this? For example, take someone who is falsely accused of murder and therefore sits on death row as a punishment. Those who 'bought him to justice' claimed they 'knew' he was guilty. This knowledge is something that exists inside their minds. They 'know' it to be true. However, truth is a different matter. In this case, both the knowledge of hi,m being guilty and the truth itself both exist. The former in the minds of the justice system and the latter in reality. Yet they both bear the quality of existence. Don't they? Going by Descartes, we see this sentiment reflected in the earlier part of The Meditations. A thought, an idea, knowledge, they all exist in the universe despite their possibility of not being true. 

I like the idea of some of your cyclical arguments,  "The one natural law is that there are no natural laws". But I can't help but feel a later point of yours, namely the barrier of language, could reinforce the idea that these arguments may ONLY be constructed via language and not say logically or mathematically in the case of Godel's incompleteness theorem (which is about 20 pages long). 

Nice parallels with the Tao.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll just jump straight in here. </p>
<p>&#8220;Afterall, one cannot know something that is not the truth.&#8221; Do you really believe this? For example, take someone who is falsely accused of murder and therefore sits on death row as a punishment. Those who &#8216;bought him to justice&#8217; claimed they &#8216;knew&#8217; he was guilty. This knowledge is something that exists inside their minds. They &#8216;know&#8217; it to be true. However, truth is a different matter. In this case, both the knowledge of hi,m being guilty and the truth itself both exist. The former in the minds of the justice system and the latter in reality. Yet they both bear the quality of existence. Don&#8217;t they? Going by Descartes, we see this sentiment reflected in the earlier part of The Meditations. A thought, an idea, knowledge, they all exist in the universe despite their possibility of not being true. </p>
<p>I like the idea of some of your cyclical arguments,  &#8220;The one natural law is that there are no natural laws&#8221;. But I can&#8217;t help but feel a later point of yours, namely the barrier of language, could reinforce the idea that these arguments may ONLY be constructed via language and not say logically or mathematically in the case of Godel&#8217;s incompleteness theorem (which is about 20 pages long). </p>
<p>Nice parallels with the Tao.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Consciousness: behind the scenes of survival by admin</title>
		<link>http://quantumbrain.info/blog2/?p=19#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quantumbrain.info/blog2/?p=19#comment-4</guid>
		<description>Perhaps our notion of will being free is an artifact of the emotion of being conscious. Perhaps the functioning of our brains (the integration of many network states representing many memories associated with a task, or set of tasks, which must be chosen to undertake) is so complex with so much feedback that we cannot comprehend the causalilty leading to our choice being made such that we ascribe to it the feeling of it being made freely. 

As for how quantum mechanics can play a roll, all I can say is: who knows what is going on behind the scenes of quantum uncertainty?! We may never know. Or maybe the theory is wrong and requires a different way of thinking. 
This outlook is not a very helpful way of gong about things which is why I suggested the proposal for direction in the previous blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps our notion of will being free is an artifact of the emotion of being conscious. Perhaps the functioning of our brains (the integration of many network states representing many memories associated with a task, or set of tasks, which must be chosen to undertake) is so complex with so much feedback that we cannot comprehend the causalilty leading to our choice being made such that we ascribe to it the feeling of it being made freely. </p>
<p>As for how quantum mechanics can play a roll, all I can say is: who knows what is going on behind the scenes of quantum uncertainty?! We may never know. Or maybe the theory is wrong and requires a different way of thinking.<br />
This outlook is not a very helpful way of gong about things which is why I suggested the proposal for direction in the previous blog.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Consciousness: behind the scenes of survival by Matthew Broome</title>
		<link>http://quantumbrain.info/blog2/?p=19#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Broome</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quantumbrain.info/blog2/?p=19#comment-3</guid>
		<description>Very well written, and an extremely interesting argument.

So if consciousness is an evolutionary emotion, and indeed, if we feel ourselves to be conscious, it must by definition be an emotion, perhaps the more fundamental question is, what is free will?

Or more importantly, do we have even have free will? Can we ever reach the answer of this question? Check out my post on Quantum Mechanics, Determinism and Free Will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very well written, and an extremely interesting argument.</p>
<p>So if consciousness is an evolutionary emotion, and indeed, if we feel ourselves to be conscious, it must by definition be an emotion, perhaps the more fundamental question is, what is free will?</p>
<p>Or more importantly, do we have even have free will? Can we ever reach the answer of this question? Check out my post on Quantum Mechanics, Determinism and Free Will.</p>
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